Operation Compass 7 RTR participation

Ground War

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Operation Compass 7 RTR participation

Beitragvon Shane Lovell » 28/1/2009, 09:18

Colleagues

The accepted truth in english language material is that the Italians were unaware that 7 RTR, eqipped with matilda tanks was in the Middle East. Is this supported by any Italian source material? Were they really 'surprised'?

cheers

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia
Shane Lovell
 

Beitragvon robc » 28/1/2009, 11:55

It is unclear, actually: the official Italian histories (one written between the 1950s and 1970s, the other in the 1980s) don't seem to focus on the subject, they just state the 7 RTR was at Alam Nibewa with Matildas.

The "surprise" most likely was in their appearance there, where there just was the Raggruppamento Maletti with infantry, some artillery and just a few M11/39 tanks, which were not even able to really participate in the battle due to communication problems: as usual the tanks had no radio equipment, so orders were given by flag signalling and there were misunderstandings at that crucial moment.

The "surprise" factor was present also in the Italian recognition of the inability of the available artillery to damage the Matildas, apart from breaking their tracks as it happened with 5 or 6 tanks in all.
robc
 

Beitragvon Shane Lovell » 29/1/2009, 12:37

Hi Rob

Thanks for that. I have another question for you.

I have an Italian published book on PzIII that came out in the 1970s. In the book are a large number of pictures from the arrival of 5 pz regt in tripoli. they appear to come from an italian archive. do you have anyu idea where they may have come from?

Thanks in advance

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia
Shane Lovell
 

Beitragvon Kuestenjaeger » 29/1/2009, 12:52

Shane,a good idea,you post the book title or ISBN number for Rob.
Kuestenjaeger
 

Beitragvon robc » 29/1/2009, 15:26

I think I remember that book... but I don't have it. Anyway at that time pictures mostly came from Bundesarchiv... why do you think they came from an Italian archive? unless they were from some private collection, they can more or less "only" come from
- AUSSME Archivio Ufficio Storico dello Stato Maggiore dell'Esercito (Archive of the Historical Office of the Army Staff)
- Luce or Istituto Luce a Governmental institution that provided photo and video coverage for all 'news' events.
robc
 

Beitragvon Shane Lovell » 1/2/2009, 02:16

Hi Robc

Sorry about the slow response. The book I was referring to is titled Panzer III by Benedetto Pafi. It does not have either an ISBN or date of publishing. The value in the book from the point of DAK research is that it contains a number of pictures taken of Pz III from 5 Pz Regt shortly after their arrival in Tripoli.

The reason I believe the photos may have come from an Italian Archive is that the photos are good quality, yet I have never seen them reproduced in any contemporary books. In particular, the number of photos and quality allow you to see specific patterns in marking styles for the turret numbers by Kp, which is something i am interested in exploring further.

cheers

Shane
Shane Lovell
 

Beitragvon Kuestenjaeger » 1/2/2009, 05:28

Kuestenjaeger
 

Beitragvon Shane Lovell » 1/2/2009, 10:23

Kuestenjaeger

Yes, thats correct. Well worth picking up.

Shane
Shane Lovell
 

Beitragvon robc » 1/2/2009, 11:41

Yes, it was the book I remembered from when I was a youngster... I didn't know it was still available to buy! I have several books from that publisher (originally it was STEM-Mucchi...).

Unfortunately I cannot say anything... are you sure there are no photo credits at all in the book, at the beginning or at the end?
robc
 


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