Auto-Saharan Company

Special Forces (Axis)

Moderatoren: trapperjoe, Kuno

Piece together materials...

Beitragvon Nacht » 27/4/2007, 16:48

You can piece together some materials from these "Basic" references... for their vehicles, equipment and OOB...

The Observer's Fighting Vehicles Directory (World War II) - Bart Vanderveen
Italian Army Order of Battle 1940-44 - Victor W Madeja
Italian Army Handbook - Victor W Madeja
Italian Order of Battle WWII (3 Volumes) - George F Nafziger
Mussolini's Soldiers - Rex Trye
Rommel's North African Campaign - Greene & Massignani
Nacht
 

Beitragvon robc » 27/4/2007, 17:54

Sorry, Nacht, but I don't believe those books get it right - IF, in fact, they touch the subject of Sahariane at all. I have not had the possibility to check them, so a scan of the page(s) dealing with the Sahariane would be most welcome, but apart from Barrie Pitt, I have seen no English or American author able to get facts straight, let alone describe composition and vehicles. As for the latter, I am painstakingly trying to ascertain picture by picture WHAT was in service and IF that corresponds to the very few original documents (which of course it doesn't, at least for the "Cufra").

I don't remember Trye dealing with the Sahariane in the book you mention (I have it, though unfortunately in an Italian translation by Mursia, I hate reading books not in the original language they were written in), I believe it was in his other, titled "Mussolini's Afrikakorps", but there you could find very scant information, apart from a single picture from Franco Festa's archive, showing an A.S.37 of the "Sebha", the only existing picture I know showing a vehicle certainly belonging to that Company.

A "real" bibliography on the subject is that which I prepared for my article and posted in this same topic a while ago
http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/viewtopic.php?p=17283#17283
http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/viewtopic.php?p=16224#16224

If you can come out with pictures of Sahariana men and vehicles, apart from the very few already published (and the unpublished ones I know) I would be at the same time very grateful AND very surprised, Nacht... :wink:
robc
 

Beitragvon robc » 27/4/2007, 18:10

Kuno, what we know about the other Sahariane is almost nonexistent.

First we'd also need to really know WHAT were the other companies, since from documents and reports it seems they were created first as 1, then 3 companies, being 4 at the time of the destruction of the Battaglione Sahariano at Alam Nibewa on December 9, 1940. Probably 5 thereafter and 7 in Tunisia, before their final disbandment. Also sometimes they were identified by numbers (1, 2 or First, Second, etc.), sometimes only by their "place of origin", i.e. Cufra, Sebha, Gadames etc. Finally, the one and same Sahariana Cufra in different times (from 1933 to 1941) was called at least three different names: "1^ Compagnia", "2^ Compagnia" and "Cufra" :shock: Some British report called it "Sahariana n.19" but it doesn't deserve any consideration.

We have very few information and very few pictures, mostly without indication of Company, location and/or date.
robc
 

Beitragvon Kuno » 27/4/2007, 19:35

You mean that the situation of documentation is even worse than for the CUFRA?
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Beitragvon robc » 27/4/2007, 19:48

It's VERY MUCH worse than the Cufra... :(
robc
 

Beitragvon Kuno » 27/4/2007, 19:50

You would be the first to know, if I would find anything about them :-)
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Beitragvon robc » 27/4/2007, 20:33

I know :wink:
robc
 

Beitragvon Kuno » 21/9/2007, 22:27

"In 1943 when the crew of Lady
Be Good started walking north out of the desert they
found several tracks left by Italian heavy trucks. The
Italians were escaping after an attack on their
desert outpost farther south. The people I've talked
with never found out if the men in those trucks ever
made it out of the desert. I'm thinking there are
probably a lot of abandoned tanks, trucks, planes, etc
left in the desert. Do you run across any of them?"

The post mentioned would be KUFRA.

What do you think about this message?
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Beitragvon Kuno » 21/9/2007, 22:28

This was my answer to above email then:

"There were no Italians fleeing north and getting lost with their trucks!
This -as far as I recall- was the assumption made in the diary of the crew.
The Italians did not have mapped this part of the sandsea - means that they
were not aware of it. I can tell you, whose traces the have found: Those of
the LRDG-patrols :-)
"
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Beitragvon Kuno » 21/9/2007, 22:28

And this the reply:

"As for the Italian trucks; they belonged to a group
of Italians fleeing from a 1941 French attack on the
Kufra Oasis far to the south. An investigation shows
they were Lancia diesel trucks with an 80 inch wide
wheel base. There's a picture of the tracks taken by
one of the key investigators who went into the desert
in 1959. The crew of Lady Be good probably had no idea
who left the tracks, only that they were heading in
the direction they needed to folow."
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Beitragvon robc » 22/9/2007, 00:11

If I'm not mistaken, the LRDG did use some Lancia trucks...

As far as I know, there was no "fleeing" Cufra: only the Sahariana left, fighting against the French and retreating to Tazerbo; after being refueled, they got back to Hon via a normal route, so they shouldn't have gotten near the Lady.
robc
 

Beitragvon Kuno » 24/9/2007, 15:42

I assumed as well tracks f the LRDG. The "Cufra" was not in that area - except if the would have made some "training excursion" prior to the war.
Benutzeravatar
Kuno
Top Poster
 
Beiträge: 10180
Registriert: 28/8/2003, 14:13

Sahariana

Beitragvon attilio60 » 26/9/2007, 17:41

From "Desert Raiders" Osprey n. 23

Regards

Attilio
Dateianhänge
sahariana 42 revised.jpg
(177.01 KiB) 58-mal heruntergeladen
sahariana 42.jpg
(158.78 KiB) 50-mal heruntergeladen
sahariana 40.jpg
(179.15 KiB) 51-mal heruntergeladen
attilio60
 

Beitragvon robc » 26/9/2007, 18:06

Attilio, please note that the Osprey booklet contains inaccuracies and errors, so I wouldn't take these at face value; it's also very likely that those guns labeled as "47/32" actually are NOT the Italian guns but the German 37/45 (PaK 36/37) guns known to have been used by the Sahariane in 1942: there are pictures to confirm this, while there aren't, to my knowledge, to confirm the 47/32.
robc
 

Sahariana

Beitragvon attilio60 » 26/9/2007, 19:47

Very Thanks!

Attilio
attilio60
 

VorherigeNächste

Zurück zu Sondereinheiten (Achse)

Wer ist online?

Mitglieder in diesem Forum: 0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast